Thursday, December 20, 2007

My Take On Reservation !!

The purpose of this post is to archive my views on reservation. I've wanted to rant out about this for long, now finally i sit down and actually do it.I'm actually for reservation, which you might think is unusual as most students(generally) are found to be against reservation policies ,this is cos' i have a different definition for it.

Now by reservation i'm speaking about reservation everywhere, not just OBC reservation, women's reservation,Disabled reservation, ( or the rumoured reservation policy in my college - 100% reservation - Dumbfucks for the Lecturer jobs ) but the whole concept of setting aside a part of opportunity exclusively for a certain section of the society be it OBC or Women or whatever.

Now, the reason i think reservation is fine, is cos' according to me the whole purpose of reservation is to set right imbalances in the society ( whether the reservation policies help in reducing this imbalance is a topic for some other day ). No society has a equal share of power. So when all the constituents of a society are given the same treatment, the strong generally take advantage and make life difficult for the weak.When this strong - weak imbalance continues over a long period of time, the imbalance tends to settle down, and there is no way proper justice can be done to the weak through a normal course.

So, the actual intended purpose of reservation is to make sure no section of the society is trampled down, and denied the right to equal opportunity. So according to me we should have reservation for the underrepresented, and try and create a balance wherever there is an imbalance.

But the problem really is, we just have caste-based reservation or gender based reservation. Though both these are extremely important, cos' major imbalances are present only with these two - caste and gender. But the caste and gender based reservation policies are always hugely politicised, and in the process the actual purpose of the reservation itself is lost, these days caste based reservation policies are made to gain casteist votes and that sucks. So in theory reservation is supposed to do social justice to the weaker sections of the society, and i support that. Thats pretty much all, but all the present government policies are no way going to help in any way.

So in case you choose to support or oppose reservation you need to make your stand clear - you could either be someone who supports reservation, but is sick of the politics around it, or you could be totally against reservation.

Another argument the anti-reservation crowd bring up is - The reservation theory actually amplifies the notion of caste in a society, cos' it constantly reminds people about their caste. So we actually are reinforcing the idea of caste when we say we are trying to eliminate the caste discrimination system.

Sometime even after the imbalance between the two groups is actually removed, the government continues to have policies to support those who were weak earlier. This creates a reverse discrimination situation. So the government should have a proper setup in place to monitor the social situation and change reservation policies accordingly, and the policy making should be independent and vote bank advantages should not be considered, also we could chart out a action plan to phase out reservations by some time, cos with an end in sight, the policies will start being more efficient as they'll start working towards a goal instead of going on aimlessly.

More later ..

Also i guess we could use this place to discuss your views on reservation too . Please post a comment with your POV, and hopefully we can have a interesting and healthy exchange of ideas ..

29 ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:

vijay said...

Well,iam totally against the idea of reservation....it is not considering the caste oriented view but by the total idea of the reservation itself .....its like this...consider an scenario,A B n C contest for a election in a constituency of 100 people.... A gets 40 votes,B gets 30 and C gets 30 ...now obviously A will be declared the winner coz 40 people wanted him but look at the scenario like this,the remaining 60 people didnt want him...so wat is the point of this election.....


The reservation is also like this .....you give some 15 percent seats for some category of people,meaning you block that much percentage for seats for the particular sect of people in the name of "providing equality to that sect"
but in the process you are neglecting the remaining 80% of the other sects...also in the 15 %seats alloted ,if all the 15%percent of seats are filled properly and if there are few more people of the same sect wanting the seat what will be the procedure???will they be given seat from the normal category???or will they be neglected saying the quota is full???

if it is the later ,is it not violation of the basic idea of reservation itself??

vijay said...

if it is the former,then is it not the injustice to the other half of the sect of people???is that not like curbing their rights to equality??

Guru said...

Now this is getting very interesting,

Macha, the first point you make about the voting scenario is one of the reasons why Democracy sucks a little, But we all hail democracy right now and still continue to follow it, cos' no one has come up with anything better than that. So till someone has a better idea, we're stuck with the best possible (again this is subjective) method of governance for now, that is democracy.

And the stats you've used need to be modified a little, if 40 choose A then that does not mean he's chosen over the rest.

In a democracy you at least need a simple majority (some countries even go far and have a 2/3rd majority as the decider ). So going by simple majority, 51 wanted A, and 49 did not.

The 51-49 case is very debatable, but a majority is a majority, regardless of the margin.( Or you could look it this way - 49 did not want A, and 51 rejected B; which do you think is the better choice ? ).

Again i need to make myself clear here, Democracy is not perfect, but it is considered the closest to perfect (again very debatable).


Now with the second point you make,

You're just against the present reservation policies da, and that makes you have a prejudiced opinion on the issue of reservation.

All i'm trying to say is that the actual purpose of reservation wasn't the crap that is happening right now. The present situation is way off from what is intended, so the policies are to blame, not the issue.


My point in the post was this,

Reservation is needed to remove the imbalance that would exist if the natural course of action was chosen. And it is upto to the govt. to make policies aimed at removing this imbalance.

It is not that a effective reservation policy is impossible, i think a policy that is fair to all can be devised, but that is where this gets caught in all the politics crap.

Reservation has been made a poll issue, all parties use it as a vote bait they use it to appease sections of the society and get votes, and everyone is reluctant to really go ahead and do the right thing, cos' right now taking the right policy decisions on this issue will be equivalent to confirming their defeat in the next election beforehand. The people are so used to the fucked up reservation policies ( that are definitely not balanced ) and they consider revoking their concessions similar to taking away their right.

So if reservation just stopped being a poll issue and if it is not mixed up with politics we can actually make is work wonders.

I have a suggestion, if the whole job of policy making was passed on to a independent board, which is completely impartial and takes its decision purely based on technical and demographic data, and if there is a efficient implementation strategy for the policies, will there be anything that can beat this ? That will give the slightly weaker sections the exact leverage needed to be on par with the rest of the people, and it'll still be fair to the supposedly stronger sections too..

But that is never going to happen, ever .. So the current reservation policies suck, but that doesn't make the actual purpose of reservation wrong, right ???

Comments ??

BTW i needn't even reply to the points you make in the second paragraph, cos you speak about how the current policies suck, even i'm on your side da ..

Actually even you misinterpreted the meaning of my post, either you didn't take the time off to read it thorough to learn the point i was trying to make and just replied hastily, or i have failed to convey what i had on my mind in a proper way.

So again all i'm trying to say is you need to differentiate between the policies that are in place right now and the actual issue itself.

To sum it all I support the issue, i'm against the policies.

vijay said...

well...okie ..to start with..firstly about the democracy thing - your two party scenario was perfect but what if there was athird party???if three parties contest and none get the 2/3rds majority,then coalition would come into picture na??if thats the case is it like this- anyways people have no choice to choose their representatives....

nextly about your claim,ya ,i didnt read your blog fully,i know your views already personnaly,so i assumed you wouldnt have a second thought and started off commenting...n even then,i was jus expressing ma views an seeking answer ,it was in no way meant as an reply for your blog....


thirdly,IAM NOT AGAINST THE IMPLEMENTATION, BUT THE IDEA ITSELF....
consider INDIA..here people are given reservation so that they could DEVELOP without any injustice done to them from other majority people....
consider reservation in college seats...people are given reservation so that they could get fair share in developing their skills for their carrer...
(i remember studying in our civics lessons that in here reservations are in all educational institutions,including skuls)
considering that,you give someone reservation in coll level so that he could get his fare share in getting educated,buthere is a prerequisite for getting into coll-that is skuling!!!y should you give reservations even at skul level...then wont it become lke providing a secure path to particular sect of people all through their life for them to suceed ......

there should be reservations only at one particular stage..like either in coll or in skul level...once provided with that he/she should be capable of developiong his skills required in getting into the other area(skul or coll)you cant protect and give someone everything all through their lives.....

Also in a democratic country like india where everyone is protected there is no point in the idea of reservations at all....if your denied something then you have the right to seek justice for it ...because india is secular n democratic


it is like this ....in a world level 100m race like the olympics you give the previlige to some sect of the contestent to start from the 50th meter....you do this because there is a fear that the remaining contestants may pull the other sect guy down an proceed....
well your job as an judge is to prosecute the other guy who harassed the protected guy and not do injustice to all other innocent guys who were not involved in the act .....
well a cntestant of a world level event would be very well aware of his consequences if he does something like that...he/she wouldnt be so foolish enough to do something like that...
well thats the whole scenario now....no one is being harassed but you assume the harrasment may occur ans you protect the sect of people...isnt this foolish...

well if you say that the actual harrasment had occured once but not now,and you are doing justice to those who got harrased once long back ago,
then is it not foolish....???
you are protecting someone who is in no danger at present but once long back was in danger.....
wats the idea....

may be my whole view was put forward considering the reservation status in INDIA(as u said).....
but i am under the assumption that this is the possible idea of reservation elsewhere also...
is it not so??
if not please temme what the actual defn of reservation is??

srinivasan said...

Guys..let us not dilute our ideas..this whole issue of providing reservations is nothing but a poison pill..it will slowly kill India from within..Its a much greater threat than terrorism..Reservation is the mainstay of votebank politics n its high time ppl like us see through the smoke screen..In a multicultural society like us how do you propose to give everyone a share fair through reservations???? And think bout what happened in Rajasthan a few months ago..a small community of Gujjars held the entire state for ransom..their demand?? ST status..why?? Cos they wanted to reap the cheap fruits of Quota..Imagine what would happen if every community or religion starts doin this..!!!!!!! The country would go to the dogs...!!!!

vijay said...

mama,you are clever da....u are increasing your traffic with this post da...may be even i got to find a topic which everyone would be pissed off an feel ranting about

Guru said...

@Vijay:

Macha, By reservation i mean the policy of providing favorable treatment or preferential treatment to weaker sections of the society in order to ensure a equal distribution of opportunity. And i'm definitely not confining myself to India alone, and i'm most certainly not speaking about the reservation in education particularly. I'm just talking about the issue in general.


Question: If there existed a efficient policy to ensure everyone in a society gets equal opportunity, and at the same time the policy is not against the interests of the supposedly stronger sections, ie. a reservation system which actually ensures perfect justice to everyone involved, would you accept ?

And just cos' a country is social and democratic does not mean everyone can fight their battles on their own da, this is cos' there is no way the weak can compete in a situation where they do not have a equal chance.

So there can be no dispute on whether reservation is actually needed, cos it most certainly is. But listen my defn. is completely different, and is in no way related to what is happening here.

And with your race analogy, that is not right, cos there is no reason for reservation in that place. Both runners have equal resources and they need to fight it out between themselves by starting at the same point.

Now imagine one of them has a slight physical disability, in such a case if a competition between them is absolutely necessary, then to compensate for his disability you need to advance the disabled guy by a certain distance and ensure that they both have a equal chance of winning by starting at their respective unequal points.

Now i'm saying we need a proper, impartial scientific and logical analysis of the situation which will give you the exact amount the disabled runner needs to be advanced such they they both have a equal chance at winning.


But the situation right now is that, the amount by which the disabled guy is pushed forward isn't a result of any impartial analysis, but right now the disabled runner gets advanced by an amount far more than necessary, or another situation will be the disabled runner will continue being advanced by the same amount even after his disability is reduced. This exactly is the problem with the current policies, they are either too biased or they have gotten biased over time and are not applicable right now, but we all are reluctant to move on cos' when you take the concessions away from people suddenly, they just do not like it. Human nature ..

Continuing with the race analogy,
Another option would be to insist that reservation is totally unnecessary, in such a case the disabled runner and the perfectly fit runner will be forced to start at the same point and now temme who do you think has a better chance ?



And my stand is, i support the first choice. The disabled runner needs to be advanced precisely by the exact amount so as to nullify the advantage possessed by the stronger ( read physically fit ) runner.And the race should go one ..

Thats reservation according to me ..


This exactly is my point da. The issue is actually fine .. I somehow feel this mad desire to convince you that reservation is actually fine. We should maybe discuss this in person ..

What say ?

So you agree to the point i make in this analogy ??


@Srini: Macha, whats your reply to the above analogy ? I definitely am against the government policy on reservation just like you, but are you against reservation ( considering my defn. ) ? Anyways thanks for responding buddy ..

Guru said...

Vijay, yeah this could get me some traffic .. Also i get a chance to rant out and in the process get to some the POV of other people too .. Works in all ways ..

vijay said...

Well thanks for redefining the race anology...thats what i wanted from you...
my point out here is "there is no such situation where in ,one contestant is stronger and one is disabled-all are equally fit for the race,but still the present scenario provides the added advantage of boosting up the once unfit guy-thats ma point"

and if ther was a scenario as to one guy is fit and the other is disabled,then you know for yourself machan there is a seperate olympics for the disabkled rite??thats the point...only equally fit guys are now present int the race...but the method for classifying fitness adopted out now is so obsolete and pointless...

Srikanth... Lonely shadow said...

I totally agree on ur definition on the reservation policy... the main idea of reservation is to help the down-trodden community in the nation.. but is it really happening ??
the main basis of reservation is, lik u said, based on caste and gender...
lets talk abt gender based reservation..
the caste system was made by the intention of helping th lower castes... but wat is happenin present.. ??
i wud lik to interest u wit this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=P7Xgc4ljHKM
see it... now wat is the govt doin to help these ppl ??
i shud say the nations caste system was made to help the down-trodden... well i dont think its actly making a wave of a change

Angel said...

reservation is alright upto one threshold point, cos above that it creats differences in society, country or continent. it was a very superb rule so called reservation for those who need it. after independence of our country for 10 to 20 years reservation was needed to set right all imbalances and smooth runnig of economy, but see wat has happened more that 50 years of independence but still reservation is there, wat for, y do we need it, by setting reservation for certain community in society we do not encourage them but we only create differences, reservation is for weaker sector, by declaring reservation for sc/obc for example, it reflects that sc/obc are weak they cannot do wat non-resevation community can do without help, they r not equal, reservation erases the sense of equality and hence breaks the feeling of unity, there by weakening the country, in our country wid so many castes and religions and other base of reservation we just cannot come up, soon we will have doctors who r not good enough or not better or not the best cos they became doctors wid the help of reservation, he cannot treat the patient that well which a person who deserves to become doctor can do, i hope u understand wat my point is, next y the hell women need reservation, r they weak cant they cope up wid men, i have heard every girl\women i have met telling that today women can do anything better that men, then wat for they need reservation, y do they need a seperate coach in trains to travel wats wrong in sitting next to a man, or they consider all men rowdy or look them down as not own, i have myself observed in local ptc buses women comes and asks the man to stand up saying that the seat is ladies seat, when all r equal men and women then y do they deserv a special place ok i have lots to say but got work to do bye bye, if somewhere my english is wrong don mind it.

vijay said...

@angel:
machan you rock da....very basic but very effective communication da.....you coincide with me...my poin is also the same.....there is no inequality in the first place....may be this is true for india but considering the reservation as itself,even then i dont go with it machan,because,it will lead a country to a point where india is now..
but may be as angel said ,reservation for a stipulated amount of time would be effective...


@guru: machi jackpot dan po....three unique visitor comments machi...keep going

Guru said...

@Vijay: Macha there are two different events in sport, but what about life, disabled or not you compete equally, right ?

And the once disabled guy still wanting to get concessions, that is just cos' of the political crap we have here in India. Can't really do anything about that .. Can we ??

@Srikanth: Thanks for your comments dude.. Good to see some solid support for my view, and that video, that is called reverse discrimination. That is the situation here right now..

@Angel: Completely agree with you macha. But then the amount of time the reservations are needed can't be predetermined, we could just say that we need to have a reservation policy in place till there is a need for it. But unfortunately, our people when they get used to getting concessions, they really don't let go of them without a ugly fight ..

And about the man-women equality point, i guess you're talking out of rage then reason.

Women consider them equal to men, but still does man reciprocate the same feeling, ie does he treat her as an equal , yet ?

Also the point that you make about coaches and seats being reserved for women is a different issue.

There is need for such reservation cos' women defn. need protection from the perverted men. Being physically weaker and soft natured, they'll will not stand a chance among the men of today.

The situation in buses and trains is really pathetic for women macha, just imagine the nummber of perverts in today's world. So there exists an inequality and so the issue has to be addressed.

@Vijay: Macha, the visitor count has been really high, around 20 uniques in the past 5 hours .. For the exact stats i'll need to wait for a couple of days for the analytics data to come in. Yeah, i guess i could use a jump start like this ..

Thanks everyone who commented here and expressed their POV.

Could we keep this going on some other issues too ? I'll try and write some stuff about general stuff like this, and hopefully we could discuss

vijay said...

@guru:
machan really can't help ra...i feel like goin on.....
about ur views on female rights....ya ,i go with it....the indian society was not a women friendly one,but,things are changing a lot,hope there would be a time when there is no talk about women-men rights at all,and everyone claim their rights on their own......

but,this reservation thing is toatally pointless da...i really dont get a point in its existance at present..
may be iam REFUSING TO ACCEPT THE FACT according to you...but from my point of view ur facts seem to be obsolete...thats the reason this commenting is still goin on n on.....u trying to convince me n me trying to do that with you...anyways....
-----------end of topic-----------

Guru said...

Check this out ..

http://yfechennai.blogspot.com/2006/05/our-charter-of-demands.html

Thats the blog of one of the biggest organisation who're against the present reservation policies.

Not that i accept their views as the right thing to do, but then they have a similar charter of demands as me. They're asking the govt. exactly what i considered the right thing to do now..


And no, my idea wasn't from these people, Just came across this blog when i was looking for similar blogs on reservation..

Cheers..

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Возможно по тематике вашего сайта подойдёт для рекламы сайт перепланировка квартир www.buro-pereplanirovok.ru для этого проекта могу заказать более дорогостоящие статьи и обзоры.
Где узнать, где заказать, какие расценки сдесь?
Хочу на постоянной основе размещать платные темы, ссылки и др. надеюсь они подойдут для ваших целей.
Я заказывала рекламные места на разных ресурсах всего за 2000 руб. в квартал за банеры.
Пожалуйста ответьте тут, напишите вашу цену. Нужно для отчёта ;)

Ещё рассмотрю предложения по [b]заказу[/b] и покупке статей на вашем сайте. Куплю дорого!

P.S. Хочу надеяться на обоюдное долгосрочное сотрудничество. Большое спасибо, жду ваших ответов желательно с ценами и расценками.

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